Really good piece, you've swayed me from a 'bad idea definitely' to 'maybe it would help actually'. The governments passport service is now incredibly good, it would make a material change to people lives if they made other services as accessable.
The other major question I have is why is labour coms so bad that the best piece arguing for these id cards is here ? Blowback from the introduction of these cards is already substantial.
This government are strangely (given the caution of their recent time in opposition) so bad at proposing any controversial policy change. Whatever the merits for or against the fuel allowance cuts for better off pensioners, or the Farmers inheritance tax , they to this day seem to think any policy is self evident and make little concerted effort to actively argue their case or convince doubters, even among their own supporters.
Your enthusiasm assumes (a) consistenty benign government and (b) perfect operation of all the systems. Neither is even faintly to be depended upon, as is amply demonstrated just now by Trump's antics and by the repeated penetration or failure of large interlinked systems - the most recent Jaguar Land Rover and a children's nursery operator. So no, I will retain my independence, and I hope that enough other rational people will do so to invalidate the plan. JM
Anybody whose opinion can be swayed by the ridiculous arguments outlined here... Is either a simpleton, being coerced or bribed to do so. This clown doesn't even address the real objections to a universal digital id. The dumbing down of the population is complete.
If the state doesn't like you, can they revoke your ability to rent? Can they do this to large groups of people they don't like such as those who's face matched those at a protest in support of Palestine?
Would be much harder to take away physical passports and driving licences but very easy to do when it's all digital.
As a non-driver without a current passport I lack either of the de facto forms of government issued photo ID.
My SAMSUNG Pay credit card (powered by CURVE) became useless when I exceeded an annual limit (of which I was unaware) and I was unable to verify my identity using either of the only two acceptable government issued photo IDs. No other verification methods were available. Computer says no! It's a meta card that obtains payments from other sources. In my case, two UK banks where I have been a customer for decades with a good credit record with them.
In the USA there are non-driver photo IDs issued by individual states which can substitute for the role of a driving licence. It would be awfully handy if DVLA would issue similar non-driver photo IDs for a modest fee! However, I think a passport is needed to apply for a first provisional licence so the same might turn out to be a requirement for a non-driver photo ID.
I also tried to obtain a GOV.UK One Login. Again, most routes require either a driving licence or passport. In theory, it should be possible with a current account with a UK bank or building society then answering various security questions but I couldn't get that to work.
I really hope that I and my fellow non-drivers without current passports will be able to obtain the mandatory digital ID! I will not be happy if I have to pay for a new passport just to obtain my mandatory digital ID.
You are correct about applying for a drivers licence. If you are a UK born resident and do not possess any non UK recognised documentation , you need a passport to obtain the provisional licence.
I do not drive, nor travelled abroad for decades , so had no passport. I decided to finally get a passport (just around jan 2020 before Covid hit) to have a de facto identity document mostly as I was planning to sell and move house, and that is also often requested by solicitors or estate agents for anti money laundering purposes. Also you can't even hire DIY equipment without Drivers Licence or passport ID not matter how big your deposit is. Your money alone still isn't good enough.
My instinct is against a formal compulsory card for some of the reasons already cited, though as a self employed home owner in my 60s, I don't think it will affect me now as much as younger working age people.
The "scope creep" that might allow a cheap or easy way to access some further services could have both good and bad consequences. Also I suspect solicitors/hirers etc will still insist on DLs or passports despite the early adoption of a third option, unless compelled by legislation.
In principal I am all for the Digital ID, I'm not a tin foil hat wearing Luddite who believes the government is just frothing at the mouth to know that I shop at Morrisons every Tuesday (juicy information, I know!). I mean if the government really wanted to track you there are literally hundreds of systems already set up and capable of allowing them to do so.
As long as the system is secure and works as advertised, rather than having to constantly hand over copies of my ID to anyone who requests it. This system if it works as I hope will only ever provide a single use verification code to whatever entity is requesting confirmation of your identity, this completely abolishes photocopies of your various forms of ID floating around on unsecure servers or in the hands of criminals!
Digital ID's could also eventually replace passwords and stupid .GOV personal identification codes, rather you go onto the site, enter your username or email, theen it gives you a QR code which you scan with the app to log in! As long as the app requires you to scan your face or fingerprint every time you log in, it would mean no one could ever "crack" your password! This obviously would only be for extra secure accounts such as online banking. Though there could be certain sites which stay logged in but would occasionally send refresher prompts to your app when you try to access your account information to verify it is you.
Really good piece, you've swayed me from a 'bad idea definitely' to 'maybe it would help actually'. The governments passport service is now incredibly good, it would make a material change to people lives if they made other services as accessable.
The other major question I have is why is labour coms so bad that the best piece arguing for these id cards is here ? Blowback from the introduction of these cards is already substantial.
This government are strangely (given the caution of their recent time in opposition) so bad at proposing any controversial policy change. Whatever the merits for or against the fuel allowance cuts for better off pensioners, or the Farmers inheritance tax , they to this day seem to think any policy is self evident and make little concerted effort to actively argue their case or convince doubters, even among their own supporters.
I'm in favour, but I don't like the name much. It'll go down really well in Derry
Your enthusiasm assumes (a) consistenty benign government and (b) perfect operation of all the systems. Neither is even faintly to be depended upon, as is amply demonstrated just now by Trump's antics and by the repeated penetration or failure of large interlinked systems - the most recent Jaguar Land Rover and a children's nursery operator. So no, I will retain my independence, and I hope that enough other rational people will do so to invalidate the plan. JM
Fancy buying me a new smartphone to run the app?
How about my mother who is completely technophobic?
Or how about the fact we don't need this rubbish, nor does it solve the problem Labour and it's thoroughly inept leadership think it will. FFS
Anybody whose opinion can be swayed by the ridiculous arguments outlined here... Is either a simpleton, being coerced or bribed to do so. This clown doesn't even address the real objections to a universal digital id. The dumbing down of the population is complete.
Good luck forfeiting your privacy.
If the state doesn't like you, can they revoke your ability to rent? Can they do this to large groups of people they don't like such as those who's face matched those at a protest in support of Palestine?
Would be much harder to take away physical passports and driving licences but very easy to do when it's all digital.
As a non-driver without a current passport I lack either of the de facto forms of government issued photo ID.
My SAMSUNG Pay credit card (powered by CURVE) became useless when I exceeded an annual limit (of which I was unaware) and I was unable to verify my identity using either of the only two acceptable government issued photo IDs. No other verification methods were available. Computer says no! It's a meta card that obtains payments from other sources. In my case, two UK banks where I have been a customer for decades with a good credit record with them.
In the USA there are non-driver photo IDs issued by individual states which can substitute for the role of a driving licence. It would be awfully handy if DVLA would issue similar non-driver photo IDs for a modest fee! However, I think a passport is needed to apply for a first provisional licence so the same might turn out to be a requirement for a non-driver photo ID.
I also tried to obtain a GOV.UK One Login. Again, most routes require either a driving licence or passport. In theory, it should be possible with a current account with a UK bank or building society then answering various security questions but I couldn't get that to work.
I really hope that I and my fellow non-drivers without current passports will be able to obtain the mandatory digital ID! I will not be happy if I have to pay for a new passport just to obtain my mandatory digital ID.
You are correct about applying for a drivers licence. If you are a UK born resident and do not possess any non UK recognised documentation , you need a passport to obtain the provisional licence.
I do not drive, nor travelled abroad for decades , so had no passport. I decided to finally get a passport (just around jan 2020 before Covid hit) to have a de facto identity document mostly as I was planning to sell and move house, and that is also often requested by solicitors or estate agents for anti money laundering purposes. Also you can't even hire DIY equipment without Drivers Licence or passport ID not matter how big your deposit is. Your money alone still isn't good enough.
My instinct is against a formal compulsory card for some of the reasons already cited, though as a self employed home owner in my 60s, I don't think it will affect me now as much as younger working age people.
The "scope creep" that might allow a cheap or easy way to access some further services could have both good and bad consequences. Also I suspect solicitors/hirers etc will still insist on DLs or passports despite the early adoption of a third option, unless compelled by legislation.
In principal I am all for the Digital ID, I'm not a tin foil hat wearing Luddite who believes the government is just frothing at the mouth to know that I shop at Morrisons every Tuesday (juicy information, I know!). I mean if the government really wanted to track you there are literally hundreds of systems already set up and capable of allowing them to do so.
As long as the system is secure and works as advertised, rather than having to constantly hand over copies of my ID to anyone who requests it. This system if it works as I hope will only ever provide a single use verification code to whatever entity is requesting confirmation of your identity, this completely abolishes photocopies of your various forms of ID floating around on unsecure servers or in the hands of criminals!
Digital ID's could also eventually replace passwords and stupid .GOV personal identification codes, rather you go onto the site, enter your username or email, theen it gives you a QR code which you scan with the app to log in! As long as the app requires you to scan your face or fingerprint every time you log in, it would mean no one could ever "crack" your password! This obviously would only be for extra secure accounts such as online banking. Though there could be certain sites which stay logged in but would occasionally send refresher prompts to your app when you try to access your account information to verify it is you.