Discussion about this post

User's avatar
John Roxton's avatar

I will do you the courtesy of taking what you write at face value, and believe that you truly do not understand why people who are not racist might have concerns about a rapidly-changing demography.

I am a civic nationalist. I believe that anyone can be an Englishman if he will behave like one; I don't care in the slightest about racial or ethnic heritage. I'll do the obligatory point here of trying to prove my bona fides by saying that while no-one would doubt that I am an Englishman, many of my ancestors had not that luxury.

I care very much about there being a high baseline of acceptance of key values I hold dear, such as respect for the law, fairness, honesty, personal liberty and equality, and tolerance of those with different beliefs and backgrounds - in short, classic Liberalism. My experience is that these are not universally-held beliefs; by global standards they are deeply unusual and are largely limited to the Anglosphere (and, to a lesser degree, Europe).

My concern is that extremely high volumes of migration from areas where these ideals are uncommon - we have imported ~5m people in the last 5 years, and have had consistently high migration for about a decade before that - will significantly reduce the baseline acceptance of Liberal ideals, to the extent that one will no longer be able to trust the legal system, the police, or the government. There are a number of cases where we can already see this to have happened, both recently (the West Yorkshire/Maccabi incident) and over a longer period (the cover-up of SE-Asian grooming gangs across the country; the systematic fraud around access to social housing in London; sectarian voting at both local and national levels). This is particularly relevant when much of that migration comes from the Commonwealth and thus has automatic voting rights; it is even more relevant in relation to countries such as India where the government has adopted the use of its diaspora to effect political change as an explicit policy goal.

I am also concerned that such a high level of migration, particularly when clustered in specific areas, reduces the likelihood and speed of integration and adoption of our shared values and norms. The examples you have given of integration - turning a family from Irish to British (or maybe even English) - are valid and are shared by my own family. But they took place at a time when net migration was likely negative, or, if positive, extremely low. I was born in the early 90s; more people crossed the channel in small boats last year than the entire net population increase in my birth year. Under the conditions of our grandparents or those before them, integration is highly likely and hard to avoid.

But the conditions now are not those of our grandparents. As part of my work I regularly perform surveys of schools across the country. I recently visited a large, nominally non-religious girls' secondary school in east London where all but three of the girls were wearing headscarves. According to the 2021 census, over half the population in the area around the school was born outside the UK; about a third is Muslim. In those circumstances, _there is nothing for the child in that school to integrate into_. They will remain in headscarves and will likely progress to face coverings like their mothers unless they move away. When everyone you meet behaves as you do, why would your behaviour change? If you have arrived from a country where Liberal values are rare, and you never need to interact with anyone who hasn't done the same, why would you spontaneously adopt Liberal values? If your children live in the same bubble as you do, why would they? It's not that integration _cannot_ happen under these circumstances, it's that it's significantly harder and slower. If the trend continues (which is I assume what Goodwin is arguing), it will eventually become impossible and the values I want to preserve will be lost.

I'll end by saying that I haven't read the article you are referring to and don't know anything about Goodwin - if he's anything like the rest of the Reform recruits then Gorton & Denton will be better off without him - I'm responding in isolation to your article above, and trying to sincerely answer the question you've posed.

Edrith's avatar

Civic nationalist here. Although I agree with some of what you said, trying to build a patriotic identity solely on the deracinated values you suggest won't work.

That inclusive national identity needs to be built from specifics: creating a shared sense of national history and heroes, heritage, festivals, landscape and sports teams (not all will appeal to all). Anyone of any ethnicity can celebrate Agincourt or Trafalgar, Shakespeare or the Beatles, thrill at the Tower of London or Bonfire Night, or cheer on the England football team yes, but we can't remove all these things and replace them with 'values'. Sometimes this shared heritage can be broadened - Commonwealth soldiers in the world wars, 'downstairs' in the stately homes, but they must be taught and promoted to convey love, belonging and pride, not self-loathing and shame - and not just a set of values that could be from anywhere in the world.

15 more comments...

No posts

Ready for more?